Curse

Alni Deathstryk · Apr 03, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

One way to fix this problem is when a faction controls a town for 2-3 days, their faction counter is reset to 0 and they are disabled from turning in faction points for a few days. it might allow other alliances to get a chance at elite missions.

Also, to those who dont want to ally with more people, then youll have to deal with it. If you dont want to put an effort toward commanding a city, you shouldnt be given the city for free

Ken Dei · Apr 03, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

The people who are unfairly accusing small guilds of being "introverted" please note this.

Small Guilds include the following:
-Guilds of friends who while welcoming to others, work best with each other.
-New guilds who can't get members because they're being swallowed up in larger guilds. (I actually had to disband my guild and join a large one, because I felt that a small guild won't have a chance.)
-Formerly larger guilds left by a leader to decay, and thus reformed and also trying to find members.

Not every single small guild is that way by choice. Also, the major grievances that seem to escape you is that the game, while team based is not meant to be "grind = victory", in essence "more players grinding = victory." If larger guilds get an advantage over small "skill-based" guilds, you have ultimately defeated the objective of Guild Wars as a whole. The game is Skill as opposed to time played/grind.

Team play should not have to mean big teams.

Fantus · Apr 03, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

If larger guilds get an advantage over small "skill-based" guilds, you have ultimately defeated the objective of Guild Wars as a whole. The game is Skill as opposed to time played/grind.

I think that small guilds were NOT what Anet had in mind when they designed GW. They wanted to have a game where people play in guilds and most important of all, fight against each other. I honestly think that Anet was genuinely surprised to see that MANY people prefered smallish "family and friends" guilds over larger, competitive ones. GvG was meant to be an integral part of GW. Like it's now, a substantial number of guilds couldn't even start a GvG with ALL their members present at the same time (which is not realistic to assume anyway). Let's face it, GvG is far from being an important part of GW. As it is now, only the most competitive guilds regularly do it.

Factions, and particulary the alliance aspect is there to fix what from Anet's perspective must appear as a flaw in GW. In the past, many people didn't want to leave their small guilds or merge with larger guilds. Often it was because people wanted to be with a small circle of good friends - and very often it simply was because people enjoyed being guild leader and didn't want to give up that position. Alliances are nothing but a soft kind of guild mergers that allow guilds to keep their capes, tags and the guild leader position. Other than that, they are guild mergers, plain and simple.

Alliances serve a mulitude of purposes. They allow very large guilds with more than 100 members to band together, something that wasn't possible in GW until now. At the same time, they encourage small guilds to "merge" with other guilds and reach a size that's sufficient to participate in GW's more competitve aspects. Which is exactly what Anets has in mind, I guess - since the competitive parts of GW will only work with lots of people participating in them. So, it is my opinion that the question whether small guilds will get shafted with Alliances is besides the point. The point of Alliances IS to subtly make small guilds vanish, anyway.

Thallandor · Apr 03, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Points to consider from what we seen from FPE:

Max no. of pples in an Alliance: 10 guilds x 100 characters/guild = 1000 alliance members.

5000 Faction points gives 10 Alliance standing points.

Alliance Standing points Degenerate at 10% of your current amount per day.(The higher your Standing points, the more you will lose requiring you to grind more points to maintain Alliance standing points on a day by day basis.)

Factions Points can be gained from quest and Alliance battles.

Should the repeatable quest we saw that gives 500/1000 Faction points each time you do them still exist in the retail version, then technically Hardcore PvE guilds/Alliance that understand this will be the ones that will be be bringing in the points (However PvE guilds rarely gets that large hence possiblity of 10 of such guilds are even rarer.)

If Elite missions merely gave more plat loot(ecto type mats or rare skin golds) but not items that are Unique(greens for example) to them, then it wont be as bad as we think...what do PvPers need those anyway.Instead of grinding Faction points that waste away each day, they could be better served playing HA to increase rank or GvGing to get ahead in the ladder for a chance at GWWC.

However should Elite mission drop items to be unique to the town/area being controlled. We will see many sweatshop farming guilds from China coping some faction farming build that is posted here taking most of the towns (large PvE guilds are possible for them as they run a Factory line model playing PvE 24/7, take forge monkies as an example) and the only way most of us will ever see those unique items is from ebay. Which in this case i dont think most of us will be getting chapter 3.

In a way i agree that the purpose of Alliances is to solve the complaints of having tons of smaller guilds found in GWP but it is also one of the factor that attract many players to buy and play it because it caters to the causal player and to risk losing them by forcing them to do otherwise would be a bad mistake since no one likes to play a game that is frustrating and time consuming (lets not consider WoWers for a sec).

Though i look forward to Factions for its new content, however should many of the issues that has come up in the FPE such as quitters/spys in Alliance battles, charging for entry into Alliance scams, acess to Elite missions and Unique items/rewards, Faction farmers scams, discrimmination against small guilds not be address, you can be sure that not many in the MMO gaming community will care to look again at any future ANET products.

Peace

mqstout · Apr 03, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Alliances serve a mulitude of purposes. They allow very large guilds with more than 100 members to band together, something that wasn't possible in GW until now. At the same time, they encourage small guilds to "merge" with other guilds and reach a size that's sufficient to participate in GW's more competitve aspects. Which is exactly what Anets has in mind, I guess - since the competitive parts of GW will only work with lots of people participating in them. So, it is my opinion that the question whether small guilds will get shafted with Alliances is besides the point. The point of Alliances IS to subtly make small guilds vanish, anyway.

And similar to the guildless forming a guild-of-one to stop invites, these small family & friend guilds will be keeping alliances-of-one.

WasAGuest · Apr 03, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Lots of good stuff posted here. Most of which kind of suggests what has been said is true. Smaller guilds and casual players need not bother with Factions.

Punish the friend based guilds. Exclude the casual players. Simply stomp the players that don't conform out of the equation... yup. Competitive game begins to really show out now.

Here's a point of view I haven't seen yet:

Isolationists. Excluding others. Here's something to think about:

You join a group, a PuG. Several members, several times, go afk with little or no warning at all. What should have taken an hour, takes you two hours. Guess what, you probably just joined some members from my guild.
We don't have a trial period, we not elitest, we are a pure PvE, relaxed and extremely casual friend based guild. We don't exclude anyone, but we do group with people several times before we invite since many people don't "fit" with this play style. Why? Cause most players we come across don't like this fact. - Sorry, but if my daughter calls me, GW's is put on hold.
In an alliance style situation where players may be more competitive and are trying to maximise "play time for gain", it's not them that don't fit, it's us. No alliance trying to get control of cities is going to want us, not the other way around.
We are and simply being "left" out of the system at work. We are not opting this, this is simply how Factions is built. So, we are not Isolationists nor do we exclude others, the system is pushing us out.

We've got no issues with joining an alliance or having others join us, though we aren't going to be turned into point farmers. You'll be hard pressed (ie, beating your head against a wall) trying to get any of us into anything PvP related (for score or direct kills). You'll be looking at lots of situations where one or a couple of us go afk during a mission (except on special planned days). Does that mean we are refusing to adapt? Not at all, it just means we are playing a game and parts of it we find fun.

What this all means, and what it goes back to, is the issue at hand. Locked content and those alliances in control of cities non-stop.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

And similar to the guildless forming a guild-of-one to stop invites, these small family & friend guilds will be keeping alliances-of-one.

Another good point. Some people, (like a rl friend of mine, who quit right after the FPE (/pout)) just don't like being tied to a guild and prefer the PuG style of play. He was very casual and felt he didn't really offer anything to being in a guild. He didn't want to be a drain on others for time and effort, nor did he want to be drained by others. He just PuGed all the time and enjoyed it. With the FPE, he saw, as many of us do, that play style is being pushed out, so he left.

Loviatar · Apr 03, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

- Sorry, but if my daughter calls me, GW's is put on hold.
.

OMG are you really saying my family comes first above GW?

oh the humanity of such a choice.

i will match that and raise you one.

*if my cat wants to be patted the henchies will not complain or chide me for leaving them to whatever is there (i try to move them to a safe area but not if it takes long)*

a person or even a pet who depends on you gets precidence in my book.

NOTE ON SUPER FARMING SOLUTION

THOSE SUPER CUSTOM ELITE ITEMS SHOULD BE OF A TYPE THAT THE PERSON IT IS ASSIGNED TO CAN USE AND CUSTOMIZED ON THE SPOT.

CHINESE / OTHER SWEATSHOP CANNOT SELL IT AND THE PERSON HAS A TROPHY ITEM HE/SHE CAN ACTUALLY USE BUT NOT SELL

LIKE THE PREORDER ITEMS.

HOWS THAT FOR A SWEATSHOP SOLUTION?

SpeedyKQ · Apr 03, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

I'm glad the feedback on this issue has been so overwhelmingly negative. I hope Anet is paying as much attention to these message boards as they claim to.

If they capped the number of people in an Alliance, instead of the number of guilds, it would solve a lot. Tiny guilds could be part of competative alliances without dragging them down by taking one of the 10 slots.

It would be even better if guilds could just buy their way into elite missions with faction points. Maybe the price of admission scales to the size of your guild. This way nobody is locked out of anything, and even little friends-and-family guilds have something to work together on that matters.

Even for the 1000-man uber-alliances who farm faction like crazy, I'm guessing it could be frustrating since you can't exactly control which city you get control of. Say there are 10 cities per side with elite missions. An alliance has seen all of the missions except the 7th-place one. No matter how carefully they plan, they always manage to come out in 6th place or 8th place. Doh!

WasAGuest · Apr 03, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

OMG are you really saying my family comes first above GW?

oh the humanity of such a choice.

i will match that and raise you one.

*if my cat wants to be patted the henchies will not complain or chide me for leaving them to whatever is there (i try to move them to a safe area but not if it takes long)*

I used to have a cat... it didn't like me though.. it used to bite my ankles all the time... /shakefist

You'll be suprised at how many PuGs feel apart within a few seconds of one of us going afk once or twice. It was and is laughable. So you know what I mean.

Good suggestions SpeedyKQ.

And I love the instant customize idea. It reminds me of the "No Drop" items in AC2 and a few otehr online games I've played. Enabled each player to have to actually earn the item rather than just buy the thing. - I admit I have terrible loot luck, but I never stop trying to get the items I want as drops - three Tombs runs in a row and not a thing for me /flex

Loviatar · Apr 03, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

I
And I love the instant customize idea. It

another idea on the instant customize idea.

make them tied to your account so you wouldnt lose it when you deleted a character.
you earned it so you should keep it.

instead of /preorder it would be something like /tropjy (weapon/armor/item)

WasAGuest · Apr 04, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

another idea on the instant customize idea.

make them tied to your account so you wouldnt lose it when you deleted a character.
you earned it so you should keep it.

instead of /preorder it would be something like /tropjy (weapon/armor/item)

Yea, that's a good point. Account based would be better so you can at least put them in storage if you want to keep them. Good idea

Loviatar · Apr 04, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Yea, that's a good point. Account based would be better so you can at least put them in storage if you want to keep them. Good idea

even better than storage.

i trash my preorder items for the space so this way the item could be trashed and /trophy back only when needed saving possibly many storage slots

Woutsie · Apr 04, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

It's almost like Anet is forcing you - if you want to compete in the elite missions and want to control towns - to join a big random alliance. To do what? Spent all of your factions for the entire alliance? I have thought about this, to join a big random alliance, but this is not how it works to me. There are like 500 or 1000 people in 1 alliance. 95% of the total alliance members doesn't even know eachother or just don't talk. All they do, is spent their faction to compete in the elite missions. So, I will not join some big random alliance and wait to see how things work out.

Loviatar · Apr 04, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woutsie

. All they do, is spent their faction to compete in the elite missions. So, I will not join some big random alliance and wait to see how things work out.

to me the elite quests are a non issue as i have never even been to FOW/UW (yet) and i dont need or actually want the super elite green xxx of xxx to make the game fun.

i will go with henchies and spend my faction on selfish me

Duly Thankful · Apr 04, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Same here

dreamhunk · Apr 04, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woutsie

It's almost like Anet is forcing you - if you want to compete in the elite missions and want to control towns - to join a big random alliance. To do what? Spent all of your factions for the entire alliance? I have thought about this, to join a big random alliance, but this is not how it works to me. There are like 500 or 1000 people in 1 alliance. 95% of the total alliance members doesn't even know eachother or just don't talk. All they do, is spent their faction to compete in the elite missions. So, I will not join some big random alliance and wait to see how things work out.

Anet is forcing you!

as for greens being elite it is not! Greens are just fluff

Mordakai · Apr 04, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

as for greens being elite it is not! Greens are just fluff

Everything is "just fluff".

ducktape · Apr 05, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Just a thought:

Although the "Access to Elite Missions will be given to the Alliance who controls that city" idea sounds like a disastrous turn from "reward skill and not time played", I thought of something that might help...

It used to be that Unique items mostly come from FOW/UW. Then they added SF, which was partially to address complaints that it's not fair that there were only high-level play areas with restricted access, based on Favor of the Gods. So not only did they add a high-level area that we can all get into at any time, and not only did they add unique items to it, they added a couple dozen unique items! And then they recently added the Scarab Queen and more unique items to a section of the game that's not even a high-level area. So it seems like they are moving towards making it easier for everyone to have access to unique drops and content areas, probably because they realize it's a bad idea to let players feel like they are being excluded from parts of the game.

A sensible way I picture the Elite Missions stuff working is that the Alliance who controls the town holds it for their faction (Luxon or Kurzick) and then everyone in their faction (Luxon or Kurzick) can access the Elite Mission in that town by paying faction points or gold to an NPC. That would be similar to the current system of winning HoH and gaining access to FoW and UW for everyone in your country/server. Yet it would also address the complaint of "hey, it's not fair, my country hardly ever has favor of the gods" by narrowing it down to two sides fighting, and making it so that you choose a side, instead of having it based which server you are on. That seems very fair to everyone involved. As for compensating the Alliance who spent their faction points to control the town, their personal reward aside from access to the Elite Mission is discounted merchant prices, their Alliance emblem plastered all over town, parades in town, and who knows what else in the way of prizes and fame.

I do wish someone from ANet would explain the Elite Mission stuff more thorougly. It's obviously confusing and the potential for unbalance is really pissing people off.

Sorry that post was so long, I wanted to be thorough in my explanations.

Mordakai · Apr 05, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducktape

Just a thought: So it seems like they are moving towards making it easier for everyone to have access to unique drops and content areas, probably because they realize it's a bad idea to let players feel like they are being excluded from parts of the game..

A thought from your thought:

If the "Elite Missions" really are exclusive (I hope they're more like you envision), then maybe Anet will make cooler Missions that offer better loot apart from the Elite missions, because of all the complaints they'll be getting...

Just a thought!

MSecorsky · Apr 05, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

A thought from your thought:

If the "Elite Missions" really are exclusive (I hope they're more like you envision), then maybe Anet will make cooler Missions that offer better loot apart from the Elite missions, because of all the complaints they'll be getting...

Just a thought!

Won't be better loot. Can't be. Balance issues at stake. Can be new skins endemic only to the areas, perhaps... but you'll never see, say, a 20>50 damage item.